Comments on: BBA HoF Ballot Discussion: Edgar Martinez http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/2009/12/31/bba-hof-ballot-discussion-edgar-martinez/ An Unofficial St. Louis Cardinals baseball blog. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:15:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Josh http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/2009/12/31/bba-hof-ballot-discussion-edgar-martinez/#comment-20713 Josh Tue, 05 Jan 2010 23:39:44 +0000 http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/?p=1416#comment-20713 Hmmm, I recall it a bit differently...something about saying yes for one and no for the other. Of course my way of thinking will be justified when the announcement comes out. Hmmm, I recall it a bit differently…something about saying yes for one and no for the other. Of course my way of thinking will be justified when the announcement comes out.

]]> By: PH8 http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/2009/12/31/bba-hof-ballot-discussion-edgar-martinez/#comment-20711 PH8 Tue, 05 Jan 2010 23:33:49 +0000 http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/?p=1416#comment-20711 What deal? I'm just incredibly convincing, and Trammell's stats speak for themselves. What deal? I’m just incredibly convincing, and Trammell’s stats speak for themselves.

]]> By: Josh http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/2009/12/31/bba-hof-ballot-discussion-edgar-martinez/#comment-20709 Josh Tue, 05 Jan 2010 23:28:56 +0000 http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/?p=1416#comment-20709 I just got Tsk tsk(ed)! Am I back in junior high? Maybe the loyal readers should also know of the deal you made to get Trammell elected... I just got Tsk tsk(ed)! Am I back in junior high?

Maybe the loyal readers should also know of the deal you made to get Trammell elected…

]]> By: PH8’s 2010 BBA Hall of Fame Ballot | Pitchers Hit Eighth :: A St. Louis Cardinals blog http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/2009/12/31/bba-hof-ballot-discussion-edgar-martinez/#comment-20695 PH8’s 2010 BBA Hall of Fame Ballot | Pitchers Hit Eighth :: A St. Louis Cardinals blog Tue, 05 Jan 2010 20:31:43 +0000 http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/?p=1416#comment-20695 [...] Edgar Martinez – Love the DH or hate it, Edgar Martinez was one of the best in league history. HOF-worthy. (Sorry Josh, the commenters agreed with me!) [...] [...] Edgar Martinez – Love the DH or hate it, Edgar Martinez was one of the best in league history. HOF-worthy. (Sorry Josh, the commenters agreed with me!) [...]

]]> By: PH8 http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/2009/12/31/bba-hof-ballot-discussion-edgar-martinez/#comment-20473 PH8 Sun, 03 Jan 2010 05:12:04 +0000 http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/?p=1416#comment-20473 Lee, I think you make a great point in comparing with Koufax. Because Edgar's 18 seasons were affected both by injury and only getting a handful of at-bats in the first couple of call-up years, doesn't mean his best seasons were any less dominant. He just didn't get an opportunity to really rack up the counting stats. Thinking along those lines, we may be in for an interesting discussion by the time Ichiro's name reaches the ballot... Lee, I think you make a great point in comparing with Koufax. Because Edgar’s 18 seasons were affected both by injury and only getting a handful of at-bats in the first couple of call-up years, doesn’t mean his best seasons were any less dominant. He just didn’t get an opportunity to really rack up the counting stats.

Thinking along those lines, we may be in for an interesting discussion by the time Ichiro’s name reaches the ballot…

]]> By: PH8 http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/2009/12/31/bba-hof-ballot-discussion-edgar-martinez/#comment-20472 PH8 Sun, 03 Jan 2010 05:05:26 +0000 http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/?p=1416#comment-20472 That stuff is fascinating Steve, thanks for the link. I'm particularly intrigued by Appier. Where do you sit on him? That stuff is fascinating Steve, thanks for the link.

I’m particularly intrigued by Appier. Where do you sit on him?

]]> By: PH8 http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/2009/12/31/bba-hof-ballot-discussion-edgar-martinez/#comment-20470 PH8 Sun, 03 Jan 2010 04:57:06 +0000 http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/?p=1416#comment-20470 Tsk tsk partner. This is not an exercise in whether we think he WILL get elected or not. That's a debate for another day.... We're putting together our own ballot, and there's no reason for us to be as short-sighted as the actual voters. :) Tsk tsk partner. This is not an exercise in whether we think he WILL get elected or not. That’s a debate for another day….

We’re putting together our own ballot, and there’s no reason for us to be as short-sighted as the actual voters. :)

]]> By: Lee http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/2009/12/31/bba-hof-ballot-discussion-edgar-martinez/#comment-20442 Lee Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:42:05 +0000 http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/?p=1416#comment-20442 As one of the absolute worst teams in the PH8 FFB league, I would like to weigh in with my half of a vote. Frankly, both of your arguments make sense to me. I get both the "excelling in a one-dimensional role" angle as well as the "I'm not really feeling Edgar." But I think Edgar's a HOFer and here's why: You can't ignore the final percentages and WAR. You just can't. The guy finished with a 147 OPS+. Sure, he didn't play the field but, as Nick pointed out, if he'd been a sluggush left-fielder for the an NL team his whole career would we really be discussing this? Poor defensive play might have been a knock against him, but I think we would have all agreed that his bat made up for it. Sure, we can discuss the maybes and what-might-have-beens, but I think Edgar maintained solid numbers over 15+ years, including 7 years of true dominance at the plate. I mean, that was ostensibly what happened with Koufax, right?* * Please note: I am NOT suggesting that Edgar ever dominated his position as Sandy did, but the fact remains that Koufax--despite having 5 or 6 ridiculously dominant seasons--didn't hit any of the typical pitching milestones and only played 12 seasons. It's not really apples to apples, but I think it's worth considering. Sorry I missed commenting on all the previous ballets (just got caught up). Here are my "yes" votes in case someone's counting: * Alomar * Blyleven * Dawson * Larkin * McGwire * Raines * Smith * Trammell * Martinez As one of the absolute worst teams in the PH8 FFB league, I would like to weigh in with my half of a vote. Frankly, both of your arguments make sense to me. I get both the “excelling in a one-dimensional role” angle as well as the “I’m not really feeling Edgar.”

But I think Edgar’s a HOFer and here’s why: You can’t ignore the final percentages and WAR. You just can’t. The guy finished with a 147 OPS+. Sure, he didn’t play the field but, as Nick pointed out, if he’d been a sluggush left-fielder for the an NL team his whole career would we really be discussing this? Poor defensive play might have been a knock against him, but I think we would have all agreed that his bat made up for it. Sure, we can discuss the maybes and what-might-have-beens, but I think Edgar maintained solid numbers over 15+ years, including 7 years of true dominance at the plate. I mean, that was ostensibly what happened with Koufax, right?*

* Please note: I am NOT suggesting that Edgar ever dominated his position as Sandy did, but the fact remains that Koufax–despite having 5 or 6 ridiculously dominant seasons–didn’t hit any of the typical pitching milestones and only played 12 seasons. It’s not really apples to apples, but I think it’s worth considering.

Sorry I missed commenting on all the previous ballets (just got caught up). Here are my “yes” votes in case someone’s counting:

* Alomar
* Blyleven
* Dawson
* Larkin
* McGwire
* Raines
* Smith
* Trammell
* Martinez

]]> By: Steve Sommer http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/2009/12/31/bba-hof-ballot-discussion-edgar-martinez/#comment-20440 Steve Sommer Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:23:39 +0000 http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/?p=1416#comment-20440 You might be right. I don't have a very good feel for how the mainstream media feels about him. Clearly all the saber guys are behind him, but that's all I really follow closely. You might be right. I don’t have a very good feel for how the mainstream media feels about him. Clearly all the saber guys are behind him, but that’s all I really follow closely.

]]> By: Josh http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/2009/12/31/bba-hof-ballot-discussion-edgar-martinez/#comment-20438 Josh Sat, 02 Jan 2010 14:25:09 +0000 http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/?p=1416#comment-20438 Winning the PH8 fantasy football league gets me two votes right? Seems like I am definitely in the minority right now around baseball but my gut still thinks Edgar is going to fall short of the 75% Winning the PH8 fantasy football league gets me two votes right? Seems like I am definitely in the minority right now around baseball but my gut still thinks Edgar is going to fall short of the 75%

]]> By: Steve Sommer http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/2009/12/31/bba-hof-ballot-discussion-edgar-martinez/#comment-20369 Steve Sommer Fri, 01 Jan 2010 03:13:00 +0000 http://www.pitchershiteighth.com/?p=1416#comment-20369 I'm going to go with, put him in. Too much WAR not to IMO (but ya'll knew I was going to say that). Peak was great enough and long enough. Did ya'll catch Justin's graphs at BtB? They're pretty cool. http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/12/15/1200949/the-2010-hall-of-fame-ballot#storyjump I’m going to go with, put him in. Too much WAR not to IMO (but ya’ll knew I was going to say that). Peak was great enough and long enough. Did ya’ll catch Justin’s graphs at BtB? They’re pretty cool. http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/12/15/1200949/the-2010-hall-of-fame-ballot#storyjump

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